From lurker-index@localhost Sat Apr 30 12:43:03 2016 Return-Path: Received: from lin16.mojsite.com (178.218.164.164:993) by g0n.xdwgrp with IMAP4-SSL; 30 Apr 2016 10:43:02 -0000 Envelope-to: miro.rovis@croatiafidelis.hr Delivery-date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:41:08 +0200 Received: from mail-wm0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50]:34930) by lin16.mojsite.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1avmBh-0002xF-8C for miro.rovis@croatiafidelis.hr; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:41:01 +0200 Received: by mail-wm0-f50.google.com with SMTP id e201so77241097wme.0 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:41:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=4xeeq35jIqj83ljMlYA1mQWFCz2C2p3e8OsoQIdk+4w=; b=HwXDl+0m9Bk/Irv09iVgeLo+EMLeLnIu0mP5OHcQ0GAo02XQ3ZBMH90K2Bi3SbucjZ vEY28LUghae860v4T2oaAoaOgJervmairtrDpeN1A2lktimmm9Cp9npHxAUCLJyjDYxn y8AoQW8BXkmN+DQjY/b40FUzhyd+lckuFPhSLf0FnvvxiLeQmUEJ11K+0337AEU5uJzT BquX+rieayOC8T5eQ2HFguhzwFyZsiQ0Ce+xIX2FpmPjnI7CoqdzBLTez4LaqIT+v4Gh O6vmISCjciIRYoSJRxABDPQdKWCgdYZSQXZz7lvVT2G1M8jYsFwSO40+J2s0D9TJE7hL gR2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=4xeeq35jIqj83ljMlYA1mQWFCz2C2p3e8OsoQIdk+4w=; b=Zu/Qz0vRtsqx1OwSjl9lu+i+o+k/kpR7QtCid/GBOnIHFNUvU4Z1xM88cRP/UfCns6 eCAEB8/9WNFQzsEVZpis2hIVRLw4Rwj/2OXGdrN5kojhNTK8AG9EH/EBAR+bQeyzMebW rh664Ouyiq3ykJRC4PXmLQ5m7dklhVCSdL2UuTgnJHMID0dB66QP6B7ATBTvmM+ea40t /1C/BnDJvzlaSzaMMRAcbNTYFGXGcmzcZ3WMsW9zpfnEOHsFc2RzppSWRXNUehka8nmf A3WXXLx/7M1QepuAm/Sq5FVnlubA40zu196hbYa1ereUnYiY+538rnNCJAgpxlu6iafF c0cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FXjZA6tMH9mqkafjGXpjempYz2xmL3B7LK4orZ5OitTaE0ooJtTIAboxfvTSeQRl50sDmm2P4VgH77sqQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.28.52.75 with SMTP id b72mr5098577wma.98.1461850860694; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.152.169 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:41:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160428102543.GC1358@g0n> References: <20160427172235.GB32227@g0n> <20160427215421.GE32227@g0n> <20160428024302.GA637@g0n> <20160428102543.GC1358@g0n> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:41:00 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Re: [CinCV TNG] Building in Gentoo From: Good Guy To: Miroslav Rovis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143001c4436e105318badf2 X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-ID: 1avmBh-0002xF-8C X-PlusHosting-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=0.082, required 5, BAYES_50 0.80, FREEMAIL_FROM 0.00, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW -0.70, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 -0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL -0.01, SPF_PASS -0.00, URIBL_BLOCKED 0.00) X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-From: good1.2guy@gmail.com X-Spam-Status: No X-getmail-retrieved-from-mailbox: =?utf-8?q?INBOX?= --001a1143001c4436e105318badf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > C'mon, while I'm relly not an expert, I am still an advanced user. > I did give it a try, right now, and what I saw is just what I had > expected: No, it can't run as root either. > > It can't run as root either. And it flunked just like it flunked as > normal user, because in a grsecurity-hardened kernel based system, root > is not the boss like root used to be the boss in pre linux capabilities > system. This application runs. The problem is your system. Cinelerra is not perfect, but I have good experience with regard to this program and system development, and I can say with good authority, the problem here is not cinelerra, it is the environment. I have built many systems, from embedded to crays, hardware and software... gentoo is a poor excuse for a system. If the hardened install breaks applications, the problem is with the hardened install, not the application. It is the job of the os to run the programs, not to fain running them, or fail a normally operational program. Security at the cost of failure seems to be a cost you are willing to bear. The system install for gentoo on my machine is nearly complete. When it works, I will see if I can tell what it is that is causing the immediate failures. After reconnoitering the gentoo install, I have reached the conclusion that it may be the only system I can not support. FreeBSD worked better, which is saying something. If you would like to see a build design with similar characteristics which has been known to work well, look at openwrt. gentoo has terrible documentation, has no well defined install procedure, does not provide a series of documented steps for system installation, and is at best a hodge podge of loosely associated programs which are mostly installed, not by design or intent but by latent dependency rules which seem to occur mostly by chance. Your lucky if you get a working system after several hours of hard work on a good machine. Lousy. On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:25 AM, Miroslav Rovis < miro.rovis@croatiafidelis.hr> wrote: > Hi Good Guy! Hi visitors of this Archived Correspondence: > > Testing Cinelerra 5.1 from goodguy repo > > I think I've almost have the new archive in Lurker all set and that our > correspondence will be functional on my SOHO, and then a non-searchable > copy, but with all the links (or most, remember Gentoo Forums have > started ruining my posts as eight-years long member of theirs, God knows > if they will start deleting them, and if so, how soon) [but with all the > links] contained in the email-messages to soon become web-pages, > functional. > > All the correspondence since Good Guy and I have moved off Cinelerra-CV > mailing list to not bombard the list, if I have set it up correctly (and > if there should not be other problems, whichever), should soon be > available at: > > http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cinelerra/gg/ > (just created, but empty). > > It'll be a complete browse, of all the correspondence during this so far > three days of testing, for people interested in installing Cinelerra, in > not yet supported *nix/Linuces, but in particular in Gentoo > (out-of-portage). > > It's pretty certain that installing Cinelerra 5.1 from Good Guys repo > should work for Gentooers with a non-hardened kernel, and it is likely > that it should work for general *nix/Linux system. > > I am however, a hard core fan of grsecurity-hardening, and want every > program that I install to play by good security rules, true security > rules (not fake like the NSA Linux... oh, sorry, I meant SELinux)... > > And so I hope to get Good Guy to solve the remaining issues ;-) . > > Should the Lurker archive not be soon available in the manner described > at the top, pls. have patience. You never know what can go wrong... > > Should that be the case, Good Guy, pls. allow another resending of this > message. > > Also, updating the archives, since they will be just frozen Lurker > archives, a copy of the Lurker archives on my SOHO, also may take time. > I don't promise anything, esp. how soon the update will be... I'm not an > expert. > > Pls. look up Cinelerra-CV mailing list for news, and to learn whether > the testing of Cinelerra-CV goodguy repo has been resolved successully, > and also look up: > > http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/gentoo/cinelerra-out-of.php > > for such news! > > On 160427-22:09-0600, Good Guy wrote: > > I would try to get the application to run as root, with > > root owner/group file permissions. The goal is to see > > I left this small part just to get the message, hopefully, in the right > place > in the thread. > -- > Miroslav Rovis > Zagreb, Croatia > http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr > --001a1143001c4436e105318badf2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
C'mo= n, while I'm relly not an expert, I am still an advanced user.
I did give it a try, right now, and what I saw is just what I had
expected: No, it can't run as root either.

It can't run as root either. And it flunked just like it flunked as
normal user, because in a grsecurity-hardened kernel based system, root
is not the boss like root used to be the boss in pre linux capabilities
system.

This application runs.=C2=A0 The pr= oblem is your system.=C2=A0 Cinelerra is not perfect, but
I h= ave good experience with regard to this program and system development,
=
and I can say with good authority, the problem here is not cinel= erra, it is the
environment.=C2=A0 I have built many systems,= from embedded to crays, hardware
and software...=C2=A0 gentoo is a poor= excuse for a system.=C2=A0 If the hardened install
breaks ap= plications, the problem is with the hardened install, not the application.<= br>
It is the job of the os to run the programs, not to fain runn= ing them, or fail a
normally operational program.=C2=A0 Secur= ity at the cost of failure seems to be a
cost you are willing= to bear.

The system install for gentoo on my machine is = nearly complete.=C2=A0 When it
works, I will see if I can tel= l what it is that is causing the immediate failures.
After re= connoitering the gentoo install, I have reached the conclusion that it
<= /div>
may be the only system I can not support.=C2=A0 FreeBSD worked be= tter, which
is saying something.=C2=A0 If you would like to s= ee a build design with similar
characteristics which has been= known to work well, look at openwrt.

gentoo has terrible= documentation, has no well defined install procedure,
does n= ot provide a series of documented steps for system installation,
<= div>and is at best a hodge podge of loosely associated programs which are
mostly installed, not by design or intent but by latent depend= ency rules
which seem to occur mostly by chance.=C2=A0 Your l= ucky if you get a working
system after several hours of hard = work on a good machine.=C2=A0 Lousy.



=C2=A0
<= /div>

On Thu= , Apr 28, 2016 at 4:25 AM, Miroslav Rovis <miro.rovis@croatiafi= delis.hr> wrote:
Hi Good = Guy! Hi visitors of this Archived Correspondence:

Testing Cinelerra 5.1 from goodguy repo

I think I've almost have the new archive in Lurker all set and that our=
correspondence will be functional on my SOHO, and then a non-searchable
copy, but with all the links (or most, remember Gentoo Forums have
started ruining my posts as eight-years long member of theirs, God knows if they will start deleting them, and if so, how soon) [but with all the links] contained in the email-messages to soon become web-pages,
functional.

All the correspondence since Good Guy and I have moved off Cinelerra-CV
mailing list to not bombard the list, if I have set it up correctly (and if there should not be other problems, whichever), should soon be
available at:

http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cinelerra/gg/ (just created, but empty).

It'll be a complete browse, of all the correspondence during this so fa= r
three days of testing, for people interested in installing Cinelerra, in not yet supported *nix/Linuces, but in particular in Gentoo
(out-of-portage).

It's pretty certain that installing Cinelerra 5.1 from Good Guys repo should work for Gentooers with a non-hardened kernel, and it is likely
that it should work for general *nix/Linux system.

I am however, a hard core fan of grsecurity-hardening, and want every
program that I install to play by good security rules, true security
rules (not fake like the NSA Linux... oh, sorry, I meant SELinux)...

And so I hope to get Good Guy to solve the remaining issues ;-) .

Should the Lurker archive not be soon available in the manner described
at the top, pls. have patience. You never know what can go wrong...

Should that be the case, Good Guy, pls. allow another resending of this
message.

Also, updating the archives, since they will be just frozen Lurker
archives, a copy of the Lurker archives on my SOHO, also may take time.
I don't promise anything, esp. how soon the update will be... I'm n= ot an
expert.

Pls. look up Cinelerra-CV mailing list for news, and to learn whether
the testing of Cinelerra-CV goodguy repo has been resolved successully,
and also look up:

http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/gento= o/cinelerra-out-of.php

for such news!

On 160427-22:09-0600, Good Guy wrote:
> I would try to get the application to run as r= oot, with
> root owner/group file permissions.=C2=A0 The goal is to see

I left this small part just to get the message, hopefully, in the ri= ght place
in the thread.
--
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr

--001a1143001c4436e105318badf2--